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Washington Women’s Heritage Project records, 1900-2000 
University of Washington Libraries Special Collections 
Diana Burgess 
January 16, 1998 
Cassette 2, Side 1 
 
 
Allison Card  00:02 
Okay. 
 
Diana Burgess  00:04 
But she was great. This was at the time of community college.  
 
Allison Card  00:09 
Now, who is it again? 
 
Diana Burgess  00:10 
Her name was Kathy... I want to say Brown, but I'll make 100-- I'll be 100 percent sure the next 
time we meet. But I was telling her how my dad used to just-- I was petrified to do my 
homework, my math homework, because he would always come by, and snatch the book and ask 
me questions, and I would just freeze. And he would just slam the book down and say, You 
goddamn idiot, smack me upside my head. You're so goddamn stupid. So, I was telling her about 
that. So she said, Okay, when you come to class and you have to do a test, this is what I want you 
to do, because it seems like your dad's following you right around everywhere you're going. He's 
defeating everything that you're trying to establish good about yourself. So, when you get to 
school, I want you to-- and go through the motions. I don't care if other people are looking at you 
like you're weird. Forget that. She said, But I want you to get out of the car, go around to the 
passenger side, open the passenger door and say, Come on Dad, get out. Go around and say, 
Come with me. Go around to the trunk of your car, unlock it, pop, pop, open the trunk, saying, 
Get your ass in the trunk, and I want you to stay there. And I done that about four times. And 
then after a while, it was like, he wasn't bothering me anymore. You know, I was-- it worked. I 
know it sounds like if somebody did see me, they would think she has lost her mind, but it really 
worked. So that was the first step of starting to feel good about myself. It really was. And then 
when I got that A minus in that algebra, that was like, Yes, so.  
 
Allison Card  00:32 
Congratulations. 
 
Diana Burgess  00:38 
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Yeah. Woo-hoo. Yes, yes indeedy. So I had a lot of trial and error. I have a lot of sadness in my 
life, but I don't like to dwell on it, because I try to find good in everything, and I don't want to 
think about the sadness. You know, I nursed it for many, many years, and now I just want to-- I 
just want to, like, move on. I really want to just, kind of forget. But, um.  
 
Allison Card  02:42 
Do you feel like that's happening with your life? That you've kind of put the past behind you? 
 
Diana Burgess  02:48 
Mm-hmm. Yeah. For-- except for one area I don't understand, and that's personal relationships, 
like one on one, man-woman. It's like, if I'm in a room and there's 10 decent, down-to-earth men 
there, and one dog-- when I say dog, you know what I'm saying, he'll seek me out. And it's like, I 
forget about those 10 decent, good men that I could really be happy with. It's almost like a 
magnet. He just pulls it out and zip, I'm right there. So, I would love to meet somebody, but it's 
like my batting average [laughs]. It just-- I just kind of-- I guess I resort to being single the rest 
of my life. I keep looking for husband number two, and I now am telling myself, I don't think it's 
going to happen. I don't.  
 
Allison Card  03:51 
Do you go out often?  
 
Diana Burgess  03:53 
Well, I used to when I first came here. I used to-- because my roommate used to own a band, and 
it was a nice-- they sung the top 40s. But you get kind of burned out with that scene, going to the 
clubs, you know? And then, they said, Well, go to church. I mean, you don't just go to church 
trying to find a husband number two, but-- that was-- that didn't work out at all. So, I don't know 
where I could go out to really meet people. I mean, even in school, when I was taking classes, 
my God, I was-- I was-- I could be each and every-- each and every peer that was in class, and I 
could be their mother, if not their grandmother. Well, that's exaggerating a little bit, but darn 
sure, could be their mother. So, I don't know. That part's-- it's lonely. 
 
Allison Card  04:56 
Right. So you would like to find someone then? 
 
Diana Burgess  04:58 
I would like to meet somebody nice and that doesn't have a lot of baggage. I mean, I have 
baggage, but I mean, psycho bag-- baggage is my term. [Laughs.] 
 
Allison Card  05:16 
Have you had many serious relationships? 
 
Diana Burgess  05:18 
No. Even before I came here, of course, after my husband and I broke up and divorced-- here I 
go, that sacrificing parent. I was always afraid that if I was in a relationship, and [cat meows] 
either of my sons had to buck up against-- with this stepdad, I was so petrified of that. I just 
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didn't want that. Because I knew-- they always say you're supposed to stand by your husband, 
and I knew that I couldn't. I mean, I just knew it. So I thought-- 
 
Allison Card  05:56 
--your devotion was to your [inaudible] children. 
 
Diana Burgess  05:58 
My sons, because I just believe they didn't say, Hey, Diana, I want to be born. That was my 
choice, and I just felt that I need to do the best that I-- my very best that I could with them. And 
I've done that, and I feel good about that. So I mean, that's another accomplishment. I don't take 
all the blame. I just thank God for James and for Mark, for how they turned out. Because they 
could have really been drug addicts, dead, in prison. They really could have been. They just 
never really had any-- I can't say never had, because my husband-- my ex husband's father, 
stepfather, he played a big, important part in James and Mark's formative years. You know, I 
mean, he's dead now, but I know he was-- you know, if I really needed him to scare them, I 
could call and he would straighten them out. [Cat meows.] What? 
 
Allison Card  07:09 
You're not paying nearly enough attention to your kitty cat. So, should we go to talk about your 
actual childhood? We've made reference to it.  
 
Diana Burgess  07:21 
Yeah, maybe not this time, because I [inaudible]-- 
 
Allison Card  07:24 
--okay-- 
 
Diana Burgess  07:24 
--it depressed me. But, I've just said so much about it. It wasn't-- it was funny, because for his 
family, we did a lot of family stuff, you know, picnics, and I would go fishing a lot with my dad. 
He kind of had me being that son, because he wasn't close to my brother. He had me kind of 
being that tomboy son. Tom-- yeah, I was the tomboy in the family, and I think, too, I was trying 
to be the son that he never had. Not saying that I thought I was a man, or I want to be a man, but 
I was trying to get his love and attention, and I always-- and I could see that he and my brother 
didn't have much of a relationship, and I thought, Well, maybe I could just fill that void for my 
dad and feel love at the same time. But, I don't know. I guess it didn't work out that way. Like I 
said, I'd go fishing a lot with him, but far as talking, you know, like maybe how you could talk to 
your dad, I didn't really never had that with my dad. He would be so grumpy, and crabby, and-- 
that when he was ready to talk to me, I was a grown woman and had my own family, you know? 
I don't know. Sometimes I think that's why this psycho man just can fill me out, because I tried 
so hard to get my dad's love and attention. You know, I was very giving, giving, nurturing, and I 
think they can just see that in me. Soon as I open up my mouth, they said, Ah, there she is. But as 
I was saying, we did-- we were very family-orientated. We would go to drive-ins and family 
picnics, Kennywood amusement parks. We would all have-- like for the holidays as we got older, 
we would all have New Year's Eve parties, you know, at a designated family member's home. 
And we all, like, lived in the neighborhood. No one had to drive. You could just walk, you know, 
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or just stay where you were. So it-- that was kind of like the shell. Wasn't like the muscle, the 
bones of it, you know, it was kind of... not really-- that was surface. It wasn't really addressing 
the hurt, so. But, um... And I have no relationship with my brother, none whatsoever. And I think 
it's so sad, because it's the only brother that I have, and I'm more closer to my brother-in-laws 
than I am my own brother. And I still think about that, and I still ask why?  
 
Allison Card  10:20 
Yeah, I was just going to ask you why your brother and you don't have a relationship? 
 
Diana Burgess  10:24 
[Some language in the following passage may be offensive.] We don't. Well, I know-- for some 
things, he used to say to me when James and Mark was little, but that I was quits-- quits. What is 
the word? Set? No. You're going to make those boys sissies. They ain't going to be nothing but-- 
I don't think he called them fags. All you doing is making sissy boys out of that. Quit babying 
them, is his famous word. And then he always talked about James, and James is going to be the 
one that's really going to give you trouble. Well, excuse me, Stanley, James is the one that did 
give me no trouble. And look where he is now. You know, it was things like that. It's-- I don't 
know. I always felt families were supposed to-- you uphold each other. That's where you go if 
you feel a little weak, you go to family so you can get refilled and get back out there.  
 
Allison Card  11:29 
Support. 
 
Diana Burgess  11:30 
Yeah, I just-- it wasn't throughout the family. [Inaudible.] 
 
Allison Card  11:36 
When's the last time you contacted-- 
 
Diana Burgess  11:38 
--myself-- 
 
Allison Card  11:39 
--or had any contact with your brother? 
 
Diana Burgess  11:42 
I don't call him at all. I don't. When I was home last September, my sister Vicky's-- she's always 
talking with me. She called him and I spoke to him briefly on the phone, you know. 
 
Allison Card  11:58 
So the rest of your family still has contact with him. 
 
Diana Burgess  12:05 
[Microphone falls]. He's kind of-- we always called him a wayward brother. I don't think Vicky's 
the classiest, but all of my other sisters, the other four-- other three, excuse me, it's not like they 
could say, Oh, I talked to Stanley last month, or Oh, six months ago, I talked to Stanley. They're 
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doing good if they say, Yeah, I talked to Stanley last year. I mean, I don't understand it. I think 
too, because he's always been away. After high school, he joined the Navy and left, and then 
when he came home, it was after my dad died. I don't know. I just-- I don't know. You know? 
 
Allison Card  12:50 
To your other sisters, do you talk to them a lot? 
 
Diana Burgess  12:53 
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I talk to-- well, I talk mostly to Vicky. She's the next closest to me, you know, 
in age, Vicky and Jeannie. But I think I talk to Vicky probably maybe twice a month, and that's 
mainly because she works swing shifts, and days, and midnight. So I don't-- she's not always 
available. But, my family, we don't call each other, like every week, you know, like everyone 
says, Oh, I'll talk to you on Sunday. We don't do that. It's kind of like the spur of the moment. 
Sometimes it might be two, three months before I hear from somebody. So. 
 
Allison Card  13:39 
Do you feel now that you can turn to them for, you said the refilling sort of-- if there's something 
wrong with your life, you feel? 
 
Diana Burgess  13:48 
I think so. But there's something in me that-- I more or less would turn to my co-workers before 
I-- not to bring work problems-- problems to work, but I just feel closer. The love for my sisters 
is still there, but by me not seeing them every day, it kind of puts a void there. So if I have a 
problem, I'm not saying that I would talk to everybody at work. There might be a certain person 
that I could confide in, you know, and say, Well, what do you think about this? Or, Guess what's 
going on? And get some valid information like that. And for me, that that's enough, you know, 
instead of not having nobody. Yeah. 
 
Allison Card  14:44 
Right. Do you think it has to do with also wanting to still feel like you're strong, that you don't 
need them?  
 
Diana Burgess  14:50 
Yeah. And I always thought, Well, gee, if I start calling them, telling them how I feel about this, 
then it's right back to where you were, you know, before you came out here, and I think that kind 
of shies me away. So I don't really share a lot about was-- I don't have a lot to share. You know, 
in my life, I would talk to my son James. I mean, that's my best friend. He's my son, but I'm very 
close to him. I could talk to him about anything or most anything. You don't want to talk about 
boy stuff. So no, I wouldn't talk about that more [laughs]. 
 
Allison Card  15:34 
So do you think that, also the distance you're saying you feel between them, also has to come 
from almost not wanting to become dependent, or for them to see you as dependent upon it? 
 
Diana Burgess  15:43 
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Mm-hmm. Yeah. Because it's easy to get into that. When I go home for three weeks, I have to 
constantly pay attention to what's-- what they're doing, because next thing I know, they've plan 
my whole vacation. You know. And I thought, Now, listen here, I love you people very much, 
and I want to spend some time with you. And I'm not saying this to hurt your feelings, but my 
main reason for being in Washington, Pennsylvania, is because I'm here to see my grandbabies. I 
call them my granddarlings, and that's the truth. I mean, I want to see them every day that I'm 
there. 
 
Allison Card  16:26 
Can they sense why-- that you feel this way, about not being strong enough or something, that 
they perceive you as such? 
 
Diana Burgess  16:37 
Um, wait a minute. Say that one more time. 
 
Allison Card  16:40 
Do they know-- you say that you feel like they don't think you're a strong person or something, 
that's why you're there. Do they know you feel this way? Do they realize when you go over there 
and you don't want them to plan your schedule and this and that? 
 
Diana Burgess  16:56 
I think they realize that, because I am such a different person that I tell them, I say, Oh, wow, 
here you're planning my whole vacation, you know. Or, you know, I'll say, Oh, is this the cruise 
boat of Washington, Pennsylvania? And they say, What are you talking about? I said, Are you 
planning my whole vacation? And it-- not so much in this negative way, but they laugh. They 
say, Oh yeah, ha ha ha ha, you know, and it's okay. But before, I would never say nothing. I 
would not open my mouth. I was like, Lead me-- here's the ring in my nose, just lead me around. 
And now it's-- sometimes my mouth's getting me in trouble now, but I'm not-- I like it because 
I'm not keeping it in. I'd rather say, Well, okay, you're right, I was wrong. I'm sorry. You know? I 
mean, it's easy for me to say, Hey, I was wrong, or I'm sorry. It's better instead of holding that in. 
Boy, I don't ever want to hold anything in ever again. I am serious, but, I mean, I'm not going to 
deliberately hurt somebody's feelings. 
 
Allison Card  18:09 
Right.  
 
Diana Burgess  18:09 
Because I don't want my feelings hurt. 
 
Allison Card  18:11 
But there's always way to express yourself without that. 
 
Diana Burgess  18:15 
And I'm learning, see? Yes. So at that part, it feels good. I like the respect that I have. And the 
statement that I thought-- it's so crazy, the statement is such that I was saying, Oh, you got your 
degree, now they know you're not dumb. No, it was-- you know, I mean, that sounds so crazy to 
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even have anticipated that thought. But I wasn't even thinking about my family when they 
handed me my little degree. I was feeling so good about Diana. I thought, Wow, look at you! 
You know? So, now I just got to get moving and get into the Tacoma UW, and finish it.  
 
Allison Card  19:13 
Oh, so you plan to continue on to University of Washington Tacoma branch.  
 
Diana Burgess  19:53 
Yeah. 
 
Allison Card  20:01 
What do you want to do?  
 
Diana Burgess  19:18 
If I could just get moving-- I don't know. That's why I think-- and I keep saying I have to do 
something. I can't just sit here until I decide what I want to do. But I would like to kind of build 
off of my work experience at Green River. And what that would be, Allison, I have not a clue. 
But I just need to-- that's what I said. This year, this is the year for movement. Now it's time to 
get out of this house and get moving. And this is what I want to do. At least go to an orientation, 
you know? 
 
Allison Card  19:51 
Right, to find out about it.  
 
Diana Burgess  19:53 
At least take one class. Just get doing something. Well, gee, instead of coming to work, sitting 
here watching TV, falling asleep, getting up, going to bed, you know, it's a cycle, and I can't 
stand it, it's time to do something different. So, okay. Anything else? I feel like I'm babbling. I 
am! 
 
Allison Card  20:26 
No you're not.  
 
Diana Burgess  20:26 
I'm just jumping from a cabbage patch to cabbage patch. But um, what else I wanted to tell you? 
Um, oh, okay. I want to share this with you about my ex. When I wanted to come out here, I was 
trying to make arrangements, because he's remarried now and they have two children. I was 
trying to make arrangements. It's funny, because I was trying to think of who of my sisters, if any 
of them would be willing to let James stay with them for one year. And I don't know, excuse me, 
I can't really remember how, but James's dad was the last person I wanted to ask, and it turned 
out that I had to ask him, and-- 
 
Allison Card  21:22 
--now, why didn't you want to ask James's father?  
 
Diana Burgess  21:25 
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Because he never was supportive of James being in the same city, and James was always 
affiliated with football. The only time that James could see his-- not could see, but the only time 
James would see his dad is if James called. And at the same note, he was screaming at the judge, 
I want visitation rights. Well, he could have them. He could get James anytime, you know, that 
he wanted. But the only time that James would see his dad is he'd say, Dad, can I come over? 
Can I come over the weekend? You know, that time. So he really wasn't actively involved in 
James's life. But... 
 
Allison Card  22:10 
How did that make you feel?  
 
Diana Burgess  22:12 
I just kind of accepted it. It's just something about-- I hate to say it, I hate to sound stereotypical, 
but it just sounds-- just seems like something that most black men were with their children. You 
know what I'm saying? From what I could see, they'd scream and holler, and they never want to 
pay child support. And I know that's on both, but I see more so where  the white divorcee would 
be more active with their children. You know, going to plays, going to games, going to whatever, 
then about a black father. And that was back then. Nowadays, I see where it's kind of turning, 
you know? Because I've noticed that they have black, single, men parents, you know, not the 
women, where the men are trying to raise their children and the wife is doing whatever, or the ex 
is doing whatever. But, for that time frame, that's what I was looking at. And it wasn't so much 
with my ex, but it was like with my sisters, with their ex-husbands. That's all I seen. It was like, 
No, I'm not paying some child support. I'd rather quit my job than pay child support. And I just 
didn't get it, you know? I mean, who were they hurting?  
 
Allison Card  23:35 
Right. The child. 
 
Diana Burgess  23:36 
They were hurting the child. So-- but anyhow. Finally, he said, All right, James could stay here. 
 
Allison Card  23:45 
How old was James at the time?  
 
Diana Burgess  23:47 
11. 
 
Allison Card  23:47 
11, so he was still young.  
 
Diana Burgess  23:50 
He was 12. So all that I heard from my ex is, Well, you know, if James doesn't want to come out 
here, I'm not going to send for-- I'm not going to let him come out here, and that just-- 
 
Allison Card  24:02 
--if he doesn't want to go to Seattle? 
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Diana Burgess  24:04 
Yeah. And that just worked on me, because I'm thinking, Now I'm out here. Suppose his dad 
turns him against me, you know? And my roommate kept saying, Now, James knows what kind 
of mother you are. James is a smart child. James knows how his dad is. Don't worry, James is 
going to want to come out here. But I still was believing, like when the phone were ringing, and 
it would be James, I would just be-- oh God, is he going to tell me he's not coming? But no, 
James kept saying, Mom, how much longer? I can't wait to get out of here. My sister, her name 
was [?Taneya?], She's driving me crazy, and Chris, they just never discipline him. But anyhow, 
sent for James, James get-- 
 
Allison Card  24:51 
--how long was this before you sent for him? That you guys were separated? 
 
Diana Burgess  24:57 
I think it was like maybe five months when he was saying, I can't stand it here. I want to come. 
And I just said, James, I want you to come up in-between school. It'll be over pretty soon. Are 
you sure I'm coming out there? I promise you are coming out here, James. So I sent for him, and 
that made me feel good, you know. Plus my husband said-- my ex husband said, I'm not, I'm not 
sending him out there. You send the ticket if you want him. Oh, he was a asshole. But anyhow, I 
saved my little bit of money and I sent for my son, to come out here. He got out of school like on 
the the third, and he was here, like on the fifth. He, you know, he said, I want to come now, and 
he's been out here ever since, and he loves it. Never has any mention-- he doesn't even want to go 
back to visit because it's small town. It's nothing to do. And he's so busy, so active, you know? 
 
Allison Card  25:57 
Does he have contact with his father now? 
 
Diana Burgess  26:00 
Mm-hmm.  
 
Allison Card  26:01 
He still lives there?  
 
Diana Burgess  26:01 
His dad came out when James graduated from University of Puget Sound and came out for his 
graduation. I was a perfect lady. Butter would not melt in my mouth, but I was rampant and 
raging, saying, Oh, sure, he wants to come out here now, I was saying typical female things. 
Sure, he wants to come out here and gloat, and da-da-da-da, but I'll be nice, and I was. I invited 
him to-- as my mother and my two sisters-- my three sisters came out, and my cousin. He's more 
like a brother. There I go. But not my brother. They all came out, and I invited my ex to go to the 
family dinner, because we went up to Seattle and had a nice dinner. And then we went to 
Victoria. Was it?  
 
Allison Card  27:00 
Yeah, it was. Uh-huh. 
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Diana Burgess  27:01 
See, Victoria. We took the clipper. Is that what it is?  
 
Allison Card  27:09 
Yeah. 
 
Diana Burgess  27:09 
And spent the day, and I said, Come on, you gotta come with us. And since [?of you?] being up 
here, I was Miss-- I was just the perfect hostess. I mean, he didn't stay with us. He had his own 
hotel room, but still, I involved him into everything, and that made me feel 100 percent better 
that I did do that-- not that I would rant and rage, because I never was one that did that. You 
know, that's just not me. So then, when I go home now, he calls me up and says, Come on, let's 
go have breakfast, or I come out, he invites me out to the house. I mean, I knew his wife and 
him. I mean, before they were married, and their two kids used to come to my house and spend 
the night or weekend with James and me. I-- why would I hate those children? Children never 
did a thing to me. I got along perfectly with them, even now as we speak. 
 
Allison Card  27:10 
How did you feel when James graduated? 
 
Diana Burgess  27:30 
From college?  
 
Allison Card  27:36 
Yeah, from Puget Sound. 
 
Diana Burgess  27:50 
Proud. Proud, very proud of him. I just told him. I'm very proud of him. He's just-- he's a good 
kid, so that's why I always say, I know God was right there, James, raising you and me both 
because I couldn't-- I ain't this good. You know, and that's true. I know. But I'm very proud of 
him, and now that he's living his dream over there with the cougars and getting his masters, 
because he said, before he got that position, he was wondering, How am I going to go to-- I want 
to get my masters. How am I going to afford it? And I always said-- but my motto all throughout 
their lives and even mine, yet, God will make a way out of no way if it's meant to be. And boy, 
I'll tell you. Price called James in for an interview and told me he wanted him to come and be his 
graduate assistant, which means that school's paying for his education, and he's getting that-- 
well, my goodness, he had a great year, didn't he?  
 
Allison Card  27:50 
Yes, he did. 
 
Diana Burgess  28:11 
Such as it is, the Cougars, to be there, and they had a wonderful article in the TNT on James. 
They was talking about James. He said the last winning team he was on was when he was 12 
years old. Now, before I-- 
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Allison Card  29:48 
--gotta turn this recording off. 